When the world feels chaotic, it shows up in how we work, parent, and lead. Dr. Maya Borgueta, FemmeFactor's resident mental health expert, joins Rachael Mandell and Rachel Semenov for a candid conversation about navigating current events without losing yourself — from building a news consumption plan to leading teams through uncertainty to the parallels between motherhood and leadership.

Transcript

Rachel Mandell (00:00)

Today we are thrilled to welcome back Dr. Maya. She is FemmeFactor's resident mental health expert. We are so glad to have her. Today we've decided to discuss a few different topics, mostly related to current events. There's a lot going on in the news and there is an overlap with our mental health in terms of what's going on in greater society and how we actually work and function professionally.

Maya Borgueta, PsyD (00:15)

The way I'm thinking about current events right now is really our mental health can't exist outside of the world that we live in. We're not functioning in a vacuum. And so when the world is in chaos, and we're feeling scared and angry and threatened, it impacts every facet of our lives from how we're showing up in our families to how we're showing up at work and how we're showing up in terms of our self-care, including coming to therapy.

It's been interesting. We're going through a period of a lot of heightened chaos and a lot of heightened fear, especially right now for folks who are in immigrant communities or who may have loved ones who are immigrants. But we've been through this a number of times in the past few years with different communities, different issues, challenges that we're facing. And so I think for better or worse, we've had a little bit of practice with how we're navigating it, sometimes more healthy and sometimes less healthy.

It's very interesting because when I talk to my clients about the world outside of our therapy session and how it's influencing them, I'm seeing a split right now. There's some people who are really needing to talk about what's going on and it feels very alive for them and personal for them. And other people who maybe are still impacted but want to keep therapy as more of this sacred space that is just for them, that they can leave the world outside at the door to the therapy office, so to speak. But people's needs fluctuate and I'm just trying to meet people where they're at right now while also knowing that whatever they're bringing into therapy, none of us are immune to what's going on in the world.

Rachel Mandell (02:26)

And is it really personal in terms of the recommendation on how to process this at the individual level? For example, if I am an avoidant person when I'm feeling anxious or triggered in some way and I'm like, for me to function, I'm going to compartmentalize and focus on what I need to get done. Whereas someone else is like, I need to process in real time in order to function. Is it a case-by-case basis when you're talking to people as to what is best when you're feeling overwhelmed?

Maya Borgueta, PsyD (03:07)

Yeah, I mean, we all have our coping strategies and they range from the more avoidant end of the spectrum to throwing ourselves in and bombarding ourselves with scrolling social media, the doom scroll, the constantly consuming news, the needing to put every waking moment into following or education about what's going on. And I think both ends of the spectrum can be a problem.

Compartmentalizing can help us get through the day, it can help us function. And I think we need to do it sometimes. Most of us can't just quit our jobs. Most of us can't just decide, I'm overwhelmed today, I need a rest day in bed. So we sometimes need to be able to compartmentalize and put things aside and move forward. But that can have a negative impact on our bigger-picture mental health. It can mean that we are not actually showing up with our values or how we want to show up with our communities.

I do have clients who tell me, I just don't read the news. I don't know what's going on because it's too overwhelming, it's too awful. And so my invitation is to say, okay, well, how can we approach it so it is not overwhelming or incapacitating you while you're still able to get the information you need to respond the way that you would intentionally? And then on the other end of the spectrum, if somebody is so over-engaging and so overwhelming themselves that they're not able to show up and function the way that they'd like to, they may need a similarly gentle invitation of, how can we put some containers around this and allow you some space to breathe and recover? We're working towards finding this middle ground where we're able to engage and also engage in our self-care, engage in the other areas of our life that need our attention as well.

Rachel Semenov (05:21)

Do you have any suggestions or coping mechanisms that you might recommend for people who are in a workplace that does not necessarily engage with current events in the same way that someone who works there does? I'm thinking maybe there's someone for whom activities with ICE are really personal to them and their family, it's scary to go outside, and they work maybe in DC in an administration that thinks that this is okay and is encouraged even. Do you have any recommendations of how someone might be able to take care of themselves and show up professionally when it feels like they're in an environment that really is not on the same wavelength as they are?

Maya Borgueta, PsyD (06:01)

Absolutely. And I think this is showing up a lot right now. The first thing I want to say — and I will answer your question — is I want to put the onus on leadership to really be aware of what is going on for your teams and how this may be showing up for people. It doesn't necessarily only impact people who are undocumented. Communities of color right now are feeling very targeted and all of your employees are likely to be feeling that in different ways. People who you may not think would be impacted may have friends or loved ones who are very dear to them who are directly impacted and they may be carrying that. So I think first and foremost, I want leadership to be paying attention to that.

In terms of what as an individual you can be doing if you are in this kind of environment that is not welcoming or you're not feeling supported in — I think generally that is not something you can change. We get signals, big signals and little signals. We experience microaggressions at work. Generally, we have a sense of whether a workplace is safe or not safe to show up with that part of ourselves. And sometimes the only thing we can do in that workspace is to protect ourselves. This is a place where compartmentalization can be very necessary.

That being said, knowing you're in this place, you absolutely need to be resourcing outside of work — connecting with people who get it, connecting with communities where you feel seen, where you feel like you belong, talking to other people that get it, and figuring out what can you do. Whether you're an activist or a helper or just starting to get educated about what's going on, what are the small things that you can be doing to feel like you are making a difference as well? Because this is a period of time where I think we all really need to be showing up for each other.

Rachel Mandell (08:44)

I want to pull the leadership thread a little bit because I know we have folks who have direct reports and that's really who we're speaking to. Can you provide any specific talking points or questions for a leader to share either one-to-one or with a team that might be useful?

Maya Borgueta, PsyD (09:01)

I think it's important for leaders to name and make space for what's going on without pushing the expectation that people are going to be ready to engage with that. As a leader, I think it can be powerful even just to name, "I'm feeling very heavy this week because I've been watching the news. I saw this shooting this week, it's weighing heavily on me. I am here and I'm ready to do this work, but I'm also carrying that." Being able to voice that gives permission and lets your team know that it is not business as usual.

If there is space for the type of work that you're doing or the type of organization that you're in to make a public statement or a statement to your team, I think that is important. That's not the case for everybody, but where it's possible, saying something is better than assuming somebody else is going to be the one to do it.

I would also make sure that we're not putting anybody on the spot. I know sometimes well-meaning people can put people they're trying to be an ally to on the spot by asking uncomfortable questions or asking them to speak for all of the members of their community. I would be sensitive to that and avoid doing that.

Rachel Mandell (10:20)

Another question from the leadership point of view — I think there might be a balancing act if you are unaware of everyone's background, feelings, experience. And I wonder if you can talk a little bit to being in a position of leadership, attempting to present your authentic point of view, while also being aware that it is a professional environment. Everything changes depending on who I'm speaking to. I'm very focused on the audience and at the individual level, I'm going to know a lot if I work with this person all the time. I can tailor what I'm talking about with them. And then if the group gets bigger — team size, company size — there's different strategies in terms of communication to employ. Do you, from the mental health point of view, think about it differently at the size of the group you're speaking to?

Maya Borgueta, PsyD (11:47)

I think there are challenges and I think many people have correctly identified the fact that we are in a very polarized place right now, and that speaking up on behalf of your more vulnerable or marginalized communities can be alienating for some proportion of a large group. I don't have an answer of how to perfectly thread the needle to make it so that your message is going to go over well with everybody. And I honestly don't think it will go over well with everybody.

For me, my perspective is that it is better to show up for the people who are most vulnerable in our organizations. And right now, there's a line that has to be drawn. I think if connecting with everybody on your team means downplaying the harm that's happening with ICE going door to door through communities and ripping people out of their homes, I think sacrifices sometimes need to be made in terms of delivering a cohesive message that's going to resonate for everybody.

Rachel Mandell (13:01)

I think it really ties back to staying close to your values that you mentioned earlier. If you are compartmentalizing and feeling avoidant because there are justifiable reasons for doing those things, it may even be more important as a leader to be aware when you trend in that direction so that when you do speak, you take time to go back to those values before presenting.

Things are in the news, it feels very chaotic, it feels totally unpredictable. A lot of folks, myself included — this can trigger a reactivity where you're like, I'm going to be reactionary in some way. And it's a choice and it can happen really quick. Am I going to do something positive or am I going to have a self-defeating behavior right now? Whether it's having a drink or not working out because I'm stressed or upset. Do you have any tips for people when you're hit with a new piece of news and you have to make a choice about how you're going to react?

Maya Borgueta, PsyD (14:09)

Absolutely. We're not machines and we don't just keep going with everything that we're taking in right now. Our nervous systems are really out of whack and activated as we're taking in all of this news. The videos that we're seeing are living in our heads right now. We're having some level of that fight, flight, freeze response. So yeah, we are reactive.

A few things come to mind. One, I would say it's okay not to have the same expectations for yourself when you are struggling with the amount that you're processing. Do you need to do that workout? Maybe it's okay to take an evening off. Or maybe this is a day to do 20 minutes of gentle yoga instead of going to the gym and lifting weights. It's okay not to beat yourself up about that.

I do think it would benefit us to be a lot more grounded going into how we consume the news. I pick up my phone and scroll through social media in between clients sometimes. We're getting news very frequently, news that's not necessarily well reported or accurately reported. It's people's fear-based, anxiety-based responses on social media, and we're absorbing all of that. Fear and anxiety are incredibly contagious — we take it on.

I think healthy ways to consume news can be making a plan for what are news sources you trust, and can you once a day — or maybe once in the morning and once in the evening — go through and check in about what's going on. We don't need to consume as much news as we possibly can. We need to be consuming news with an eye towards: How is this going to inform what decisions I'm going to make? Is this going to make a difference in how I am keeping myself safe? Is this going to make a difference in where I am donating money this month? Is it going to make a difference in how I'm showing up for my community? That's the mindset that I think will help us be more intentional, less reactive.

The other thing is we can make sure that we are physically in a more grounded place when we are engaging. There are a number of grounding tools and techniques that we can do to regulate our nervous system. Sometimes taking 30 seconds to do a box breathing exercise before getting on your phone can make a difference.

Rachel Mandell (17:14)

I love the idea of a news consumption plan and also grounding as a part of that plan. I think that can really make a difference because like you said, it is so easy to just pick up the phone and see something we weren't expecting and be really derailed.

Maya Borgueta, PsyD (17:20)

Another tip that I have is that a lot of social media platforms will give you an option to auto-play videos that you can shut off, so that you have to click in and make a decision to watch a video rather than having sometimes really upsetting, dysregulating videos showing up in that endless scroll.

Rachel Mandell (17:58)

That's a great tip. There's something much more impactful and lasting in video form too. I think even the type of content you're consuming — I choose no video, me personally — and setting up tools and keeping yourself safe from that is also a part of that consumption plan that can really make a difference. The level of impact and the time of recovery for me is much more significant if I'm watching a video than if I'm reading it. That's just something I know and have to adhere to.

Rachel Semenov (18:36)

Just a double tap on the idea of having a purpose behind the types of news and media being consumed. I like that mindset because it certainly shifts how I would view just any of the noise that's coming in — to give myself a filter. Is it productive or am I just absorbing it because I feel like I ought to be, or it's here and it's almost addictively horrible. You can't look away.

Maya Borgueta, PsyD (19:06)

There is kind of this addictive quality that it can feel like sometimes. I think there's some anxiety at the base of that — this idea of if we stay informed, we can stay on top of it. There's almost a magical thinking to it.

Rachel Semenov (19:10)

Yeah, it certainly feels like if I just see enough, if I just understand it enough, there's some way out of this. But it's an endless stream and that's not productive. I can't do something with every piece of information I'm receiving. But to look at it through a filter of — is what I'm absorbing, reading, viewing, going to give me something actionable or am I just taking it in because it's here? I think that's very helpful because I can already see in my mind a delineation between the content I've consumed because it was there and it didn't feel good and I have nothing to do with it, versus the information I've gathered that says, I hadn't looked at it that way — this is new information that I can take with me when I'm in my community or when I'm talking with other people.

Maya Borgueta, PsyD (20:20)

Yeah, absolutely. And that's also something leaders can be doing — if you want to be able to support your teams, making sure that you are generally aware of the things that may be impacting the people who are working with you.

Rachel Mandell (20:39)

And you mentioned fear and anxiety are really contagious. Can you tell us why?

Maya Borgueta, PsyD (20:43)

It's evolutionary. We are primed to be very responsive to threats because being responsive to threat is survival. We are social creatures. We don't evaluate threat in a vacuum. We evaluate it based on what we're seeing and hearing and how other people are responding to it. It can go both ways. If everyone around you is downplaying a threat, even if you can see there's something dangerous, we will also turn down our threat response. But when people around us are really heightened and activated, we catch on to that too. And so we can end up taking on not just our own fears, but the fears of the people around us.

Rachel Mandell (21:30)

I think from a leadership point of view that's really interesting — wanting to acknowledge but not perpetuate the fear and anxiety so that there is a level of focus, grounding, and ability to be responsive. I'm so curious about leading in a way that acknowledges the dignity of everyone in the room and also perpetuates a sort of healthy balance. And really, what it comes back to based on what you're saying is start with yourself. Start with yourself as a leader. You have more responsibility to commit to aligning with your values because that's going to be the example, and where your talking points come from, where your point of view comes from. And if you shift one way or another too far from that, your leadership quality will also shift.

Maya Borgueta, PsyD (22:46)

Absolutely. And this is messy stuff. There's no perfection here. There is striving towards doing things in a way that aligns with your values and that is thoughtful and intentional. And it's not going to always land right with everybody. You might make some people upset. You might make other people feel safe and seen and cared for. And I'm glad that we're having these discussions because I think it's really important to have support for that messiness.

Rachel Semenov (23:19)

Yeah, as you said, we don't live in a vacuum and these things seep into every facet of our lives, whether we acknowledge it or not. This is something people are thinking about, they're taking to work, they're taking home with them. It shows up in our conversations with our kids. It's kind of everywhere. And it doesn't just start and stop in a news article or a video.

Rachel Mandell (23:44)

And Rach, based on what you said, a lot of women leaders who we're speaking to are also mothers and parents. There is a lot of similarities in being your best parent and being your best leader at work. And I want to emphasize that because it's not always emphasized. Maya, I don't know if you have anything to add on that point, but when we're particularly talking about these really complicated, emotionally charged topics, women mother-leaders are managing this from all sides. I drove through a protest with my five-year-old on Sunday, and she was asking what they were protesting. And I had to talk in really simple terms about what was going on and what they believed and were fighting for. And she had her own opinions and reactions. And that conversation can very much feed into my opinions, thoughts, and other conversations at a completely different place and scenario and time.

Maya Borgueta, PsyD (24:52)

Motherhood is absolutely a leadership role. And I see that with my clients who are in leadership roles in their work and in their home. There's huge parallels that I think people can draw on — their skill set in both directions, bringing their leadership skills they're developing at work home to their families and vice versa. So I'm glad you brought that up.

Rachel Mandell (25:15)

This was a great conversation. I really appreciate your time and I appreciate covering this topic because it's a difficult one, but it's so important, particularly at this time. And I am excited to share it with everyone.

Maya Borgueta, PsyD (25:32)

I am a psychologist specializing in support for women and members of the LGBTQ community. A lot of my work focuses on the intersection between our personal lives, our professional lives, and our mental health. I especially love working with women of color and women from immigrant communities. If you are interested in therapy, you can find me on our website at stellanovapsych.com. I work with a team of great therapists who all have our own different approaches and specialties. You can find us all there.

Rachel Semenov (26:05)

Thank you.